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Identifying Low and Scoop Hands in Stud 8 or Better

September 19, 2008 by James in Stud 8 or Better Poker

Many players are familiar with how to play seven card stud, but get confused when trying to play stud 8 or better poker.  The concept of making a low hand and identifying a scooping hand sometimes is a difficult concept to grasp.  Today, we will review how to identify a low hand and also how to spot a two way scoop hand.

First, a low is a hand of five unique cards eight and below.  That means that you cannot have pairs of any type in your hand.  Also, aces play both high and low in stud 8.  For instance, if you hold Kc-2d-Ah-6s-8c-9s-7h, you have an eight low (8-7-6-2-A).  Another example would be 7h-2c-5d-As-10s-Js-6c.  This hand contains a seven low (7-6-5-2-A).  How about a hand such as 6c-6s-2d-Ad-3c-Kh-4s?  This hand contains a six low (6-4-3-2-A).  The hand had a pair of sixes but there were four other unique cards to make a low.  What if you held 8c-8s-8d-5c-4c-2h-Ks?  You do not have a low in this hand.  Yes, you have 6 cards in your hand eight and below, but only four of those cards are unique.

Now that we have gone over identifying low hands, let’s look at scoop potential hands.  What do you hold if you have 8c-2c-4s-Ad-Ah-8s-5c?  In this example you hold two pair and an eight low.  Aces and eights are your two pair with 8-5-4-2-A for your low.  How about 4c-4s-4d-3s-2d-Ah-6h?   This is a set of fours with a six low (6-4-3-2-A).   Now let’s look at 6c-7c-5d-Ks-4d-3h-Qs.  What do you hold here?  You have a seven high straight and a seven low.  2c-4c-8c-6c-Ac-Ks-Qs would give you a flush with an eight low.  Low straights and low flushes can play both ways.   What about 6c-7d-8h-9d-10h-As-2c?   If you said a ten high straight with an eight low, you are correct.  As you can see, you do not need to use the same five cards for both high and low.  Also remember, if you have a high hand only, that hand can still scoop a pot if no one makes a qualifying low.

Now that you have a few examples of how to spot low hands and how to spot scoop hands, let’s review a few things to keep in mind that will help you quickly identify a low.  First, if you have 3 cards in your hand higher than 9, you cannot make a low.  If you have a full house, you will not make a low.  Aces play both ways, so don’t get locked into thinking that aces are high only.  Finally, if you are uncertain as to whether or not you have a low, turn your hand over.  In casinos, cards speak.  This means that when you show your hand, you do not have to announce it.  The dealer can read the hand for you and award the pot accordingly.  Granted, this is a dead giveaway that you are a rank beginner in the game, but at the same time get help if you need it.

Once you get the hang of reading low hands, reading them will become second nature.  I recommend getting a deck of cards and dealing some hands out and taking your time to identify low hands and potential scoop hands.  Once you feel comfortable, get yourself into a game.  Good luck to you.

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Common Mistakes by Beginner Stud 8 or Better Players

September 17, 2008 by James in Stud 8 or Better Poker

Players that are just learning to play Seven Card Stud 8 or Better tend to make a lot of mistakes while learning how to play the game properly.  I was no different than most players.  I took my own approach to playing the game until I was taught properly.  Today, lets look at a few mistakes beginning stud 8 or better players make.

The biggest mistake that most stud 8 poker players make is playing the game like stud high.  Playing hands such as pairs with big kickers, medium and high straights, and even high flush draws are all trap hands that will cost players money.  Some players will pick up a hand such as pocket queens or kings and then push them all the way to the river.

Another mistake players make is playing a lot of eight low draws.  Many players are confused as to why they shouldn’t play a lot of eight low draws.  They are of the mindset that if their opponent misses their draw, that their hand may be good.  This may be true, but you are relying more on luck in this scenario than on proper play.  There are times where you are going to chase down a hand with an eight low draw, but you need to stay away from playing every eight low draw that you come across.

Slow playing a rolled up set in stud 8 is a big mistake.  Stud high players are reading this with great confusion.  In stud high, you want to try and keep people in with your rolled up set as the hand is a very powerful starting hand.  In stud 8, rolled up sets are one way hands the majority of the time.  You want to play them fast to push out the mediocre hands and the weak low drawing hands.  A set is much more subsceptible to being outdrawn in stud 8 than in stud high.

Another mistake many players make is not paying attention to cards on the board when playing their hands.  When playing any stud game, you must keep track of the cards in other players hands.  This is more important in stud 8 than in other hands.  First you need to be able to determine which of your needed cards are potentially still available.  Next, you need to know what your other players are potentially drawing to.  When you know what is out there, you can make educated decision and calculated draws.  Otherwise, you are relegated to catching cards and gambling.

One mistake that almost every beginning player makes in stud 8 is trying to push players out when you hold the nuts.  When you have a hand where you have at least one side of the pot locked, you want to try and extract as many bets as possible.  Some players try to push players out in an attempt to win the pot right then.  That type of play will cost you bets.  When you have one side of the pot locked up, you need to do what you can to keep players in.

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Beginner Stud Eight or Better Tips

Seven card stud eight or better is a popular split pot version of stud that is played in many casinos and in major tournament sets throughout the country. Many people that start playing this game try to approach the game like seven card stud and end up with big losses at the table. This article will introduce you to Stud eight or better and give you some beginning tips to help speed your learning curve.

The rules for stud eight or better are almost identical to regular stud. The low card is still the bring-in on third, and the high hand opens the betting on all subsequent streets. The main difference in the two games is the low element of the game. A player can win half the pot if they hold a five card hand with five unique cards eight and below. This is known as a low. An ace can play high or low. Straights and flushes do not affect a low hand. The best low hand is the wheel. (A-2-3-4-5) If more than one player holds a low, then the best low hand wins the pot. For example, a 3-4-5-6-7 is lower than an A-2-3-4-8. The first player holds a 7 low and the other player has an eight low. In the event one player has both the best high hand and the best low hand, the player scoops the entire pot. The same thing occurs when no player hold a low.

The object of stud eight or better is to scoop pots. In order to do that, you need to start with hands that give you the best opportunity to scoop a hand. Starting hands in stud eight are much different than regular stud. First, as a beginning player, you need to stay away from almost all pair, including buried pairs with the exception of aces and occasionally kings. King are to be played very sparingly and I personally recommend not playing them against a raising ace.

Any pair from nines to kings are one way trap hands. You need to stay away from them. Some people will recommend playing low pair when you play stud eight. While learning the game, I recommend staying away from them. Playing low pairs is tricky and can be a losing proposition if you are still learning the game. Big straight draws and big flush draws should be avoided. Many regular stud players have a hard time getting away from these types of hands when first learning stud eight. I was the exact same way. In regular stud, big straight and big flush draws are potentially powerful hands. In stud eight, they are trap hands. At best you are drawing to half the pot.

Ideally you want to start with a three card low hand that is coordinated in some way. A low three card straight hand or a low three card flush hand are very powerful starting hands. Even gutshot low straights are decent starting hands. After low three card straights and low three card flushes, you want three low cards with an ace. Examples are 6-3-A, 7-2-A, and 7-3-A. As mentioned earlier, the only pair that you really should play safely is aces. Ideally, you will want a low card as a kicker with your aces. That way you have a chance to draw at a low. Another advantage is that if you start with aces and a low kicker and you pair your kicker, not many people are going to put you on two pair. Chances are they are going to put you on low and you can pick up some pots when a player playing a bad pair or a weaker two pair calls you down.

Let’s talk about eight low draws. Eight low draws are very tricky to play. You can play them profitably, but you must be careful. The best eight low draw to play is a three card straight or three card flush. These are relatively safe to play. Otherwise, playing an eight low can be costly, even an 8-2-A. Any 7 or better low beats you, and even a better eight low. This is one spot where position can actually help you in stud eight. If you are in late position against either just the bring in, or against high cards, then you can play the eight low draw. If other low cards come in the pot before you, you would be wise to fold all eight low draws other than three card low straights and flushes.

Let’s talk about playing rolled up sets for a minute. You may wonder why I mention playing sets as they seem pretty simple to play. Actually, you will want to play any rolled up set fast in stud eight, especially a high set. Most stud players will slow play a rolled up set in regular stud, and would be right to do so. In stud eight, this is a mistake. First, this is a one way hand only in most cases. You will not be able to take low. While you will start with the best hand, unless you improve to a full house, you hand can be outdrawn by a low straight or flush. Also, if you let a lot of low cards in, you are almost certain to chop the pot. Playing the hand fast will likely force some of the low draws out and give you better odds.

The next tip is the most important tip I can give you as a stud eight or better player. If you do not improve on fourth street, abandon the hand unless it is checked to you. When you miss on fourth street, you must catch two out of the remaining three cards in order to make a hand. While possible, you are drawing at long odds to catch your hand at this point. If your hand improves to a four low on fourth, you are almost even money to make your low. The rule of thumb that I used as a beginning player was that either I had to improve to a four low, a four flush, or catch a pair of aces on fourth in order to continue in the hand. In most other cases, I abandoned the hand.

Stud eight or better is a complex but profitable game for those that start off playing a solid game. You will find that many players that play this game really don’t grasp many of the concepts covered in this article. As a result, you may find most low limit stud eight games to be very profitable. With the above tips and practice, you should have the tools needed to become a solid stud eight player in short order. Good luck, and see you at the tables.

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Beginner Tips for Seven Card Stud Poker

Seven card stud is one of the oldest forms of poker played in casinos today and was the most popular game for many years before the increase in popularity of texas holdem. In many areas, especially Los Angeles and Atlantic City, you can still find Stud games at various levels. This article will cover some of the basics to learning seven card stud.

Seven card stud is normally played with a maximum of 8 players. Each player typically put in an ante before a hand is dealt. Each player is dealt three cards. Two cards are dealt face down and the third is dealt face up. The lowest card showing, also known as the door card, makes a forced bet known as a bring-in, which is equivalent to twice the ante in most cases. The player also has the option to make a completion bet. In most games, the bring-in bet does not equal the smallest bet option. For example, in a $3-$6 stud game with a 50 cent ante, the bring-in would be $1. A completion would be $3. If a completion bet is made then, normal limit betting applies; otherwise, players are only required to call the bring-in. After the deal, the next card, known as fourth street is dealt face up as well. In fact, fourth through sixth streets are all dealt face up. The player that is showing the highest hand is first to bet. On fifth street, the betting limits double. In the above example, fifth street forward would be bet in increments of $6. After action is completed on fifth and sixth streets, the river card is dealt face down to each player, followed by another round of betting. After the betting, the players show their hands. The player with the best five card hand wins the pot.

First, before we go into starting hands, let’s touch on the subject of tracking up cards. Unlike holdem and omaha, each play receives their own unique hand in stud. In addition, up to four cards may be exposed in any one player’s hand. Keeping track of up cards, both showing and folded, becomes of high importance. If you have an opponent that is showing a gutshot straight draw that needs a five, and you know that three of the fives have been folded, you know the player only has one out to catch his hand. This type of knowledge is crucial in being able to make decision as to whether to call, raise, or fold in a stud hand.

Position is less of a factor in Stud than in other forms of poker. The main reason is that position can potentially change with each flip of a card. The highest showing hand on each street determines the betting order. As you become more skilled in stud, there will be times that you may be able to use position on third street to your advantage, but as a beginner playing in low stakes stud games, position is next to irrelevant.

Let’s review starting hands for a moment. The best starting hand is a rolled up set, with three aces being the best starting set. Buried pairs are also really strong. As implied by the name, a buried pair is when your down cards for a pair and your door card is unrelated. The strength in this hand is in its deceptive nature. If you have a 3 showing and two tens in the hole, chances are high that you will get a lot of action when you catch a ten and bet out or even raise a bet made into you. A split pair occurs when your door card matches one of your down cards. This type of hand isn’t as easy to disguise and can kill action if you pair up your door card right away. Especially at low levels, when a player pairs their door card, they typically have made a set. A three card flush can either be a really strong hand or a trap hand. While learning, I would recommend playing three card flushes that either include an ace or have multiple high cards. This allows you the chance to improve your hand without having to catch a card of the same suit. Three card straight flush draws are the best type of flush draw to have, but I would play low straight flush draws very carefully. Unless you catch fortunate, a low flush draw can easily be outdrawn. Three card straights are tricky hands to play. Three running straight cards are the best type of straight draws to play, preferably with the straight running to the high side. Gutshot straight draws should be avoided while you’re learning stud.

Let’s look at starting hands a little deeper. As mentioned earlier, you want to keep a close eye on upcards in stud. This is extra important on deciding what hands to play. If you are dealt a high pair, such as kings and see another king and maybe one of your kickers out, then the odds are stacked against you to play the hand. The same holds true for straight and flush draws. When you start with the initial deal and you are dealt a flush draw, if more than two cards of your suit are showing, then you need to get out of the hand. The same holds true for a straight draw. Furthermore, if two or more of any single card needed to complete your straight draw is showing, you need to get out of the hand. You need to also take heed of the same things on future streets in the hand. Starting off on third with a flush draw and all cards of your suit are live is great, but if on the next street you don’t catch a fourth suited card and three other cards of your suit are showing, it’s time to fold.

Seven card stud is an old classic that is beginning to make a bit of a comeback due to mixed games like H.O.R.S.E. Unlike holdem, it is much more complex and requires greater focus and discipline while learning the game. The tips above should give you a great start in learning this classic game. Good luck to you at the tables.

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